Opening this line of discussion here on this forum to give those who are checking in here a chance to weigh in on the conversations that will be encouraged here and elsewhere.
The question that was asked was .... Does a " Gravitor" work and my answer was yes.
You are all welcomed to take it from there. Linda
The Quonset Hut
Discussions of Townsend Brown and other Obscure Scientists, their work, lives and everything else in the Universe.
The Gravitor
12 posts
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The Gravitor
by Linda Brown » Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:39 pm
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Linda Brown - Commander
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Re: The Gravitor
by Linda Brown » Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:34 pm
And this snippit from a Cosmic Token discussion might give you an idea of why things are not always as simple as they seem to be regarding this subject..............
"Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:55 pm
So that some of the newbies ( said with a great deal of respect I want you all to know. Anyone with less than twenty years in this subject can be lovingly called a newbie!) get a chance to see for themselves what we are talking about here Hobbit.
"How I Control Gravitation"
by
T.T. Brown
Science & Invention (August 1929) / Psychic Observer 37(1)
There is a decided tendency in the physical sciences to unify the great basic laws and to relate, by a single structure or mechanism, such individual phenomena as gravitation, electrodynamics and even matter itself. It is found that matter and electricity are very closely related in structure. In the final analysis matter loses its traditional individuality and becomes merely an "electrical condition." In fact, it might be said that the concrete body of the universe is nothing more than an assemblage of energy which, in itself, is quite intangible. Of course, it is self-evident that matter is connected with gravitation and it follows logically that electricity is likewise connected. These relations exist in the realm of pure energy and consequently are very basic in nature. In all reality they constitute the true backbone of the universe. It is needless to say that the relations are not simple, and full understanding of their concepts is complicated by the outstanding lack of information and research on the real nature of gravitation.
A couple of things have to be noted. First of all. Dad did not name this piece " How I control Gravity." He was always upset that the publisher had dubbed the piece that. He had called it " Stress in Dielectrics" but of course the publisher was probably right... more people noticed when it was named what he chose! And are still noticing.
Dads words stand as a beacon..."In fact, it might be said that the concrete body of the universe is nothing more than an assemblage of energy which, in itself, is quite intangible.
Just trying to understand what he said there....could take a lifetime of work.
and the last part is vitally important as Hobbit and I both sensed.
"In all reality they constitute the true backbone of the universe. It is needless to say that the relations are not simple, and full understanding of their concepts is complicated by the outstanding lack of information and research on the real nature of gravitation. [/color]In all reality........complicated by the outstanding lack of information and research.... on the REAL NATURE of gravitation.
If we are on a quest. There it is right there. To understand the REAL NATURE of Gravitation and indeed the Real nature of our own reality.
Linda Brown
Posts: 1186
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2011 1:08 pm
Private message
So maybe it will become clear that this is not a simple quest toward the securing of a cutting edge technology. And while it is important to understand the physics of the thing there is more at stake here than simply that. Linda
"Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:55 pm
So that some of the newbies ( said with a great deal of respect I want you all to know. Anyone with less than twenty years in this subject can be lovingly called a newbie!) get a chance to see for themselves what we are talking about here Hobbit.
"How I Control Gravitation"
by
T.T. Brown
Science & Invention (August 1929) / Psychic Observer 37(1)
There is a decided tendency in the physical sciences to unify the great basic laws and to relate, by a single structure or mechanism, such individual phenomena as gravitation, electrodynamics and even matter itself. It is found that matter and electricity are very closely related in structure. In the final analysis matter loses its traditional individuality and becomes merely an "electrical condition." In fact, it might be said that the concrete body of the universe is nothing more than an assemblage of energy which, in itself, is quite intangible. Of course, it is self-evident that matter is connected with gravitation and it follows logically that electricity is likewise connected. These relations exist in the realm of pure energy and consequently are very basic in nature. In all reality they constitute the true backbone of the universe. It is needless to say that the relations are not simple, and full understanding of their concepts is complicated by the outstanding lack of information and research on the real nature of gravitation.
A couple of things have to be noted. First of all. Dad did not name this piece " How I control Gravity." He was always upset that the publisher had dubbed the piece that. He had called it " Stress in Dielectrics" but of course the publisher was probably right... more people noticed when it was named what he chose! And are still noticing.
Dads words stand as a beacon..."In fact, it might be said that the concrete body of the universe is nothing more than an assemblage of energy which, in itself, is quite intangible.
Just trying to understand what he said there....could take a lifetime of work.
and the last part is vitally important as Hobbit and I both sensed.
"In all reality they constitute the true backbone of the universe. It is needless to say that the relations are not simple, and full understanding of their concepts is complicated by the outstanding lack of information and research on the real nature of gravitation. [/color]In all reality........complicated by the outstanding lack of information and research.... on the REAL NATURE of gravitation.
If we are on a quest. There it is right there. To understand the REAL NATURE of Gravitation and indeed the Real nature of our own reality.
Linda Brown
Posts: 1186
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2011 1:08 pm
Private message
So maybe it will become clear that this is not a simple quest toward the securing of a cutting edge technology. And while it is important to understand the physics of the thing there is more at stake here than simply that. Linda
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Linda Brown - Commander
- Posts: 6615
- Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:36 am
Re: The Gravitor
by Mikado14 » Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:59 pm
It appears that no one wishes to talk about a Gravitor. However, that fact you chose to say - "Anyone with less than twenty years in this subject can be lovingly called a newbie!" - I find curious but not surprising.
Does a Gravitor work? You answered yes Linda but in reality one only wonders when you have said on more than one occasion that you do not understand the science, so, just how is it that you can answer in the affirmative?
Perhaps that is why you are so pissed about the 2,000 posts. You can't copy and paste and you were so very much counting on them.
Those that wish to discuss, have at it and see where it goes but I will bet it just might very well go in the direction of ecker's playing with lifters. I will wait and see.
Mikado
Does a Gravitor work? You answered yes Linda but in reality one only wonders when you have said on more than one occasion that you do not understand the science, so, just how is it that you can answer in the affirmative?
Perhaps that is why you are so pissed about the 2,000 posts. You can't copy and paste and you were so very much counting on them.
Those that wish to discuss, have at it and see where it goes but I will bet it just might very well go in the direction of ecker's playing with lifters. I will wait and see.
Mikado
The thing about Inner Circles is that they are like Boxes - difficult to think outside of them.
"When the Debate is Lost, Slander is the Tool of the Loser" SOCRATES
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.”
― Søren Kierkegaard
"When the Debate is Lost, Slander is the Tool of the Loser" SOCRATES
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.”
― Søren Kierkegaard
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Mikado14 - Commander
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Re: The Gravitor
by Mikado14 » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:37 pm
Putting this under this thread topic.
Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion. That does not mean that their opinion is accurate.
Well Raymond, let us use Mr. Peabody's "way back machine" and remember.
First trip back -
You were the one that said that you felt that before anything could be done that the math from Brown's archives needed to be understood. I said that I didn't agree with you in that engineers "use formulas" every day without first researching how the formula was derived. A formula is a representation, mathematically, of a compilation of a data set. So, you were proposing to backward derive a formula, at that time, without having any data. That is about as simple as I can put it, wouldn't want to lose anyone on this.
Second trip back -
You were the one that decided that - "go ahead and build it buddy" - or some such phrase, and you were going to understand the math.
Third trip back -
I said ...no, I believe that I promised you, that you would be given the data set when full testing was completed and then compiled for I felt that it would provide you with what was necessary so as to better ascertain how the math from Kitselman was derived.
Fourth trip back -
A little while ago when I was in the hospital, Kim made a post in regard to a box containing data that was being compiled for you and Linda took it to a level that Kim was burning it or something like that. Here is the post:
http://www.ttownsendbrown.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=30300#p30300
And then Linda, petulant little child that she is and so very prone to embellishment, said that Kim "burned" the papers.
http://www.ttownsendbrown.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=30306#p30306
As you can see, if you wish to review the links, you will see the exact extent that Linda will embellish. Kim never mentioned anything about burning the data and as to Linda being "informed about burning", well, the box is still here..unless that is in the universe that Linda seems to be living in then perhaps they have been burned.
...and the way back machine is out of fuel....got to get one of them thar "Mr Fusions".
...and now something serious.
Raymond, first of all, I don't do braggadocio. I am no braggart. So, for you to characterize me by saying - "That is why Mikado never bragged about "turning his gravitator ON" " is only showing how well you really know me. Linda knows that I am no braggart but I doubt very much if she will or would truthfully answer that at this point. And as to the rest of your statement - "and he never wanted to show his work to anyone." - and why would that be? If you had spent the funds, and continue to do so, in attempting to duplicate some of Dr. Brown's work then why would I wish to disclose the work until it can be proven with the hard data set and an explanation of "what it is doing?" I have a news flash for you, the math will only show a mathematical representation of the data set from the experiments but....a really big but.....THAT WILL NOT EXPLAIN HOW IT WORKS IN REGARD TO ESTABLISHED SCIENTIFIC UNDERSTANDING!!! Am I the only one that understands that? I could go on with this but it is beginning to appear as though I am talking to a wall. I have been saying this for quite some time and no one is listening. Instead, individuals have, and still are, creating fictional characters, fictional stories ... fiction .... fiction .... and more fiction and in some circles it is nothing more than flat out lies.
Did you think I wouldn't find a mathematician who could help Hut B? Do you think that the math hasn't been understood as far as the series gravitor is concerned?
I offered you the data set because you were my friend, nothing more, nothing less. You chose your path and I chose mine. I know what it is, on a small scale, to deal with the scientific community and what they will want for proof is a good deal more than an equation and the explanation of that equation. They will want to see how it fits in with "known science" and the principles of physics and that will be very tricky...remember, Dr. Brown himself mentioned that it was a "departure from Coulomb's Law" and that will be a hurtle to overcome. So, premature disclosure before one knows how the hell to describe it? Only a braggart would do so.
Mikado
Raymond wrote:Re: Regarding the HUT
by peetee le Trickfox » Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:45 pm
That is why Mikado never bragged about "turning his gravitator ON" and he never
wanted to show his work to anyone.
He always tried to convince me that he would build and demonstrate it working,
then turn around and look at me and say to everyone "Now Raymond will explain it".
Andrew always wanted to tell everyone that he OWNS it.
I just wanted to understand why and how it works but I warned everyone long ago that I would never "turn the switch on"
http://www.psychopropulseur.com/necromicon
Looks to me Mikado just lost faith in everyone including himself when he offered his
work to Andrew for a cash buy-out.
So sad
Raymond
Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion. That does not mean that their opinion is accurate.
Well Raymond, let us use Mr. Peabody's "way back machine" and remember.
First trip back -
You were the one that said that you felt that before anything could be done that the math from Brown's archives needed to be understood. I said that I didn't agree with you in that engineers "use formulas" every day without first researching how the formula was derived. A formula is a representation, mathematically, of a compilation of a data set. So, you were proposing to backward derive a formula, at that time, without having any data. That is about as simple as I can put it, wouldn't want to lose anyone on this.
Second trip back -
You were the one that decided that - "go ahead and build it buddy" - or some such phrase, and you were going to understand the math.
Third trip back -
I said ...no, I believe that I promised you, that you would be given the data set when full testing was completed and then compiled for I felt that it would provide you with what was necessary so as to better ascertain how the math from Kitselman was derived.
Fourth trip back -
A little while ago when I was in the hospital, Kim made a post in regard to a box containing data that was being compiled for you and Linda took it to a level that Kim was burning it or something like that. Here is the post:
http://www.ttownsendbrown.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=30300#p30300
And then Linda, petulant little child that she is and so very prone to embellishment, said that Kim "burned" the papers.
http://www.ttownsendbrown.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=30306#p30306
As you can see, if you wish to review the links, you will see the exact extent that Linda will embellish. Kim never mentioned anything about burning the data and as to Linda being "informed about burning", well, the box is still here..unless that is in the universe that Linda seems to be living in then perhaps they have been burned.
...and the way back machine is out of fuel....got to get one of them thar "Mr Fusions".
...and now something serious.
Raymond, first of all, I don't do braggadocio. I am no braggart. So, for you to characterize me by saying - "That is why Mikado never bragged about "turning his gravitator ON" " is only showing how well you really know me. Linda knows that I am no braggart but I doubt very much if she will or would truthfully answer that at this point. And as to the rest of your statement - "and he never wanted to show his work to anyone." - and why would that be? If you had spent the funds, and continue to do so, in attempting to duplicate some of Dr. Brown's work then why would I wish to disclose the work until it can be proven with the hard data set and an explanation of "what it is doing?" I have a news flash for you, the math will only show a mathematical representation of the data set from the experiments but....a really big but.....THAT WILL NOT EXPLAIN HOW IT WORKS IN REGARD TO ESTABLISHED SCIENTIFIC UNDERSTANDING!!! Am I the only one that understands that? I could go on with this but it is beginning to appear as though I am talking to a wall. I have been saying this for quite some time and no one is listening. Instead, individuals have, and still are, creating fictional characters, fictional stories ... fiction .... fiction .... and more fiction and in some circles it is nothing more than flat out lies.
Did you think I wouldn't find a mathematician who could help Hut B? Do you think that the math hasn't been understood as far as the series gravitor is concerned?
I offered you the data set because you were my friend, nothing more, nothing less. You chose your path and I chose mine. I know what it is, on a small scale, to deal with the scientific community and what they will want for proof is a good deal more than an equation and the explanation of that equation. They will want to see how it fits in with "known science" and the principles of physics and that will be very tricky...remember, Dr. Brown himself mentioned that it was a "departure from Coulomb's Law" and that will be a hurtle to overcome. So, premature disclosure before one knows how the hell to describe it? Only a braggart would do so.
Mikado
The thing about Inner Circles is that they are like Boxes - difficult to think outside of them.
"When the Debate is Lost, Slander is the Tool of the Loser" SOCRATES
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.”
― Søren Kierkegaard
"When the Debate is Lost, Slander is the Tool of the Loser" SOCRATES
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.”
― Søren Kierkegaard
-
Mikado14 - Commander
- Posts: 2054
- Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:38 am
- Location: Located where I want to be...or not...depends on the day.
Re: The Gravitor
by catspaw1950 » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:06 pm
My point of view on this: Mikado, if you have a working model of a Gravitor, good on you. If not, I hope you will be able to accomplish that. I understand that it isn't at the level of a salable product until you have all the ducks in a row. Society, as a rule, doesn't buy something without having evidence that it works. Well, exceptions to that rule would be the people who spend their time glued to the shopping channels on tv. I hadn't thought about Mr. Peabody and his machine in a very long time. I used to love that show.
Cat
Cat
A time just for plantin', a time just for ploughin'.
A time just for livin'. A place for to die.
'Twas so good to be young then, to be close to the earth.
Now the green leaves of summer are callin' me home.
A time just for livin'. A place for to die.
'Twas so good to be young then, to be close to the earth.
Now the green leaves of summer are callin' me home.
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catspaw1950 - Commander
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Re: The Gravitor
by Linda Brown » Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:43 pm
This is my response to an older remark that you made her Mikado. I am posting the entire message so that you will be able to follow along. You chose to say.....
» Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:59 am
It appears that no one wishes to talk about a Gravitor. However, that fact you chose to say - "Anyone with less than twenty years in this subject can be lovingly called a newbie!" - I find curious but not surprising. ( Why curious? Some folks here are just passing through guests I have noticed... no one else is really posting other than a small number. Anyone with less than twenty years IS a newcomer to this field. My opinion.)Does a Gravitor work? You answered yes Linda but in reality one only wonders when you have said on more than one occasion that you do not understand the science, so, just how is it that you can answer in the affirmative? ( Do you have to understand exactly how electricity works to appreciate a lamp.... or an automobile to drive yourself to town? Silly Rabbit.Silly question.)Perhaps that is why you are so pissed about the 2,000 posts. You can't copy and paste and you were so very much counting on them. I am upset about those posts because you erased pure proof of some of your more nefarious actions and now are trying to pretend that they were not there. You erased them to cover your tracks. And yes, if I had still found them out there I would have posted them for everyone to see. Darned right!
Those that wish to discuss, have at it and see where it goes but I will bet it just might very well go in the direction of ecker's playing with lifters. I will wait and see. You are so condescending and yet no one has seen anything that you have produced. Just alot of hot air. And I wonder why it is that anybody would listen to you at all, except that you have taken over the ttownsendbrown site and those who are interested in him automatically end up here. Which gives you your audience. You so far have said nothing of interest scientifically here. One will wait and see I guess I agree.Mikado
Now you will probably erase this because it does not fit in your agenda and it is a commentary from me, which you are not allowing..... Yet at the same time you feel that it is proper for you to make all kinds of disparaging remarks in my direction. Why is that alright Mikado? You feel somehow entitled to do that. You have said before that you don't have to explain your actions to anyone. OK. We will see. Linda
» Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:59 am
It appears that no one wishes to talk about a Gravitor. However, that fact you chose to say - "Anyone with less than twenty years in this subject can be lovingly called a newbie!" - I find curious but not surprising. ( Why curious? Some folks here are just passing through guests I have noticed... no one else is really posting other than a small number. Anyone with less than twenty years IS a newcomer to this field. My opinion.)Does a Gravitor work? You answered yes Linda but in reality one only wonders when you have said on more than one occasion that you do not understand the science, so, just how is it that you can answer in the affirmative? ( Do you have to understand exactly how electricity works to appreciate a lamp.... or an automobile to drive yourself to town? Silly Rabbit.Silly question.)Perhaps that is why you are so pissed about the 2,000 posts. You can't copy and paste and you were so very much counting on them. I am upset about those posts because you erased pure proof of some of your more nefarious actions and now are trying to pretend that they were not there. You erased them to cover your tracks. And yes, if I had still found them out there I would have posted them for everyone to see. Darned right!
Those that wish to discuss, have at it and see where it goes but I will bet it just might very well go in the direction of ecker's playing with lifters. I will wait and see. You are so condescending and yet no one has seen anything that you have produced. Just alot of hot air. And I wonder why it is that anybody would listen to you at all, except that you have taken over the ttownsendbrown site and those who are interested in him automatically end up here. Which gives you your audience. You so far have said nothing of interest scientifically here. One will wait and see I guess I agree.Mikado
Now you will probably erase this because it does not fit in your agenda and it is a commentary from me, which you are not allowing..... Yet at the same time you feel that it is proper for you to make all kinds of disparaging remarks in my direction. Why is that alright Mikado? You feel somehow entitled to do that. You have said before that you don't have to explain your actions to anyone. OK. We will see. Linda
-
Linda Brown - Commander
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Re: The Gravitor
by Mikado14 » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:33 am
Linda Brown wrote:This is my response to an older remark that you made her Mikado. I am posting the entire message so that you will be able to follow along. You chose to say.....
» Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:59 am
It appears that no one wishes to talk about a Gravitor. However, that fact you chose to say - "Anyone with less than twenty years in this subject can be lovingly called a newbie!" - I find curious but not surprising. ( Why curious? Some folks here are just passing through guests I have noticed... no one else is really posting other than a small number. Anyone with less than twenty years IS a newcomer to this field. My opinion.)Does a Gravitor work? You answered yes Linda but in reality one only wonders when you have said on more than one occasion that you do not understand the science, so, just how is it that you can answer in the affirmative? ( Do you have to understand exactly how electricity works to appreciate a lamp.... or an automobile to drive yourself to town? Silly Rabbit.Silly question.)Perhaps that is why you are so pissed about the 2,000 posts. You can't copy and paste and you were so very much counting on them. I am upset about those posts because you erased pure proof of some of your more nefarious actions and now are trying to pretend that they were not there. You erased them to cover your tracks. And yes, if I had still found them out there I would have posted them for everyone to see. Darned right!
Those that wish to discuss, have at it and see where it goes but I will bet it just might very well go in the direction of ecker's playing with lifters. I will wait and see. You are so condescending and yet no one has seen anything that you have produced. Just alot of hot air. And I wonder why it is that anybody would listen to you at all, except that you have taken over the ttownsendbrown site and those who are interested in him automatically end up here. Which gives you your audience. You so far have said nothing of interest scientifically here. One will wait and see I guess I agree.Mikado
Now you will probably erase this because it does not fit in your agenda and it is a commentary from me, which you are not allowing..... Yet at the same time you feel that it is proper for you to make all kinds of disparaging remarks in my direction. Why is that alright Mikado? You feel somehow entitled to do that. You have said before that you don't have to explain your actions to anyone. OK. We will see. Linda
What ever you say Linda, your right, NO ONE has saw anything of what I have done. Only those that can be trusted and that is what has you pissed.
As to the 2,000 posts, your opinion only, of course it is as biased as your actions.
Mikado
The thing about Inner Circles is that they are like Boxes - difficult to think outside of them.
"When the Debate is Lost, Slander is the Tool of the Loser" SOCRATES
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.”
― Søren Kierkegaard
"When the Debate is Lost, Slander is the Tool of the Loser" SOCRATES
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.”
― Søren Kierkegaard
-
Mikado14 - Commander
- Posts: 2054
- Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:38 am
- Location: Located where I want to be...or not...depends on the day.
Re: The Gravitor
by Linda Brown » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:47 am
How can you possibly say this with a straight face Mikado
You are losing your grip on reality.
Soon you are going to end up looking like the Wile E Coyote
And I suppose like him you will sue the Acme company for supplying you with a rocket that doesn't work. It would be very much like you I think.
If you have missed that thread on the Cosmic Token you really do need to read it. Its hysterical and I have to say that I could not help but think of you.
And you sure that you are not Kim here because you don't sound yourself today
What ever you say Linda, your right, NO ONE has saw anything of what I have done. Only those that can be trusted and that is what has you pissed.
As to the 2,000 posts, your opinion only, of course it is as biased as your actions.
proper English Mikado, please. Linda
You are losing your grip on reality.
Soon you are going to end up looking like the Wile E Coyote
And I suppose like him you will sue the Acme company for supplying you with a rocket that doesn't work. It would be very much like you I think.
If you have missed that thread on the Cosmic Token you really do need to read it. Its hysterical and I have to say that I could not help but think of you.
And you sure that you are not Kim here because you don't sound yourself today
What ever you say Linda, your right, NO ONE has saw anything of what I have done. Only those that can be trusted and that is what has you pissed.
As to the 2,000 posts, your opinion only, of course it is as biased as your actions.
proper English Mikado, please. Linda
-
Linda Brown - Commander
- Posts: 6615
- Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:36 am
Re: The Gravitor
by Mikado14 » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:53 am
Linda Brown wrote:How can you possibly say this with a straight face Mikado
You are losing your grip on reality.
Soon you are going to end up looking like the Wile E Coyote
And I suppose like him you will sue the Acme company for supplying you with a rocket that doesn't work. It would be very much like you I think.
If you have missed that thread on the Cosmic Token you really do need to read it. Its hysterical and I have to say that I could not help but think of you.
And you sure that you are not Kim here because you don't sound yourself today
What ever you say Linda, your right, NO ONE has saw anything of what I have done. Only those that can be trusted and that is what has you pissed.
As to the 2,000 posts, your opinion only, of course it is as biased as your actions.
proper English Mikado, please. Linda
First off, I am not myself today. I was at the Doctor's yesterday and I have to deal with it.
Saying it with a straight face? Sure, why not? You do it when you tell your stories so why can't I?
As to proper English, I am doing my best today, we all have bad days except in your case, your having a bad year.
Mikado
The thing about Inner Circles is that they are like Boxes - difficult to think outside of them.
"When the Debate is Lost, Slander is the Tool of the Loser" SOCRATES
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.”
― Søren Kierkegaard
"When the Debate is Lost, Slander is the Tool of the Loser" SOCRATES
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.”
― Søren Kierkegaard
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Mikado14 - Commander
- Posts: 2054
- Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:38 am
- Location: Located where I want to be...or not...depends on the day.
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