The Quonset Hut

Paul Schatzkin clearly had to rely very heavily on the information provided to him by “Morgan” and “O’Riley” for much of the content of “Defying Gravity, Chapter 54: Parachutes and Mud”.

For example:

After he left Josephine in the Hollywood Hills [on the 13th April 1945] - the morning after the day Franklin Roosevelt died, the next place we find Townsend Brown is a few days, maybe a week later - in the skies over Germany, aboard a British Halifax bomber, with a parachute on his back.

Of the six-thousand-some Halifax bombers that saw service during World War II, only three remain intact today. One of them, the NA337, was recovered from the frigid waters of Norway’s Lake Mjøsa fifty years after it crash-landed there in April of 1945 and was fully restored in the 1990’s.
According to Morgan, the NA337 is the same plane that delivered Townsend Brown - and certain other Caroline operatives - behind enemy lines in Germany in the closing weeks of World War II.

This time, the big Halifax lumbered into German airspace just above the treetops with just the one passenger huddled near the open hatch, waiting for the order to jump. When the plane reached the drop zone, it was flying at a mere 300 feet. The bomb-bay doors opened to drop some supplies, and then the plane circled to gain altitude. At all of 600 feet, the bomber was still low enough to fly under the German radar — and just barely high enough for Brown to get out the door and get his parachute fully open before hitting the ground.

Newly manufactured Halifax, airframe number NA337, was delivered to 644 Squadron (Royal Air Force) at Tarrant Rushton, Dorset, England on the 5th March 1945. It was allocated the squadron code 2P-X, which was painted in large characters on each side of the fuselage. ‘2P’ indicated the aircraft belonged to 644 Squadron, and ‘X’ uniquely identified the aircraft.

It should be noted that Operational logbooks and suchlike refer to aircraft by their squadron codes, not by their airframe numbers, in much the same way we refer to a vehicle by the characters on its number plate, not by its unique vehicle identification number.


Click here for a larger image:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4434803/Halifax ... -large.jpg

Official records show that 2P-X (NA337) made only two operational flights during April 1945.

On the night of 20/21 April 1945, 2P-X was flown to Denmark on S.O.E. Operation Tablejam 160 to drop supplies to the resistance. The drop zone was located about 25 miles SSW of Copenhagen, at position 55 22 00N, 12 10 03E.
644 Squadron’s Operations Record Book shows that the weather conditions were poor, and that the signals displayed by the reception party on the ground were not consistent.
The pilot, F/O Alexander Turnbull DFC, therefore decided not to drop the supplies, and so they were brought back to England - with the official records showing the operation was “not completed”.

Dr. Brown could not, therefore, have been dropped behind enemy lines in Germany on this flight to Denmark, for it is clear from the account given to Paul Schatzkin that NA337 dropped supplies before climbing to 600 feet to drop Dr. Brown.


On the night of 23/24 April 1945, 2P-X (NA337) was flown to Mikkelsberget in Norway on S.O.E. Operation Crop 17 to drop supplies to the Norwegian resistance. Another Halifax, 8A-H from 298 Squadron, also based at Tarrant Rushton, had taken off seven minutes ahead of 2P-X bound for the same drop zone at position 60 27 50N, 11 51 23E.

Hallvard Sund, who was in the reception party at the drop zone, says the first aircraft [8A-H] approached at 01:10 from the south and dropped its supplies in accordance with established procedures.
The second aircraft [2P-X] made its initial approach from the west at 01:30. They waited for it to approach the dropping zone a second time before they displayed the appropriate light signals, whereupon the aircraft dropped its supplies and departed to the west. A few minutes later the aircraft was hit by flak over the railway bridge at Minnesund at the southern end of Lake Mjøsa, and F/O Turnbull was forced to ditch the aircraft near the small town of Stange.

Halifax 8A-H landed back at Tarrant Rushton after 10 hours and 6 minutes in the air. Its flight time to the drop zone was 5 hours 26 minutes, whilst 2P-X took 13 minutes longer. Nine other Halifax flights that night from Tarrant Rushton to drop zones in roughly the same geographic area as Crop 17 were airborne for between 10 and 10½ hours.
The flight times of all these aircraft were entirely consistent with those flights having been made directly to and directly back from Norway. A flight via enemy held territory in Germany would have taken, at the very least, 1½ hours longer.

It is clear from the above that 2P-X (NA337) could not have dropped Dr. Brown behind enemy lines in Germany before proceeding to Norway.


Conclusion:
The evidence shows that “Morgan’s” assertion that NA337 delivered Townsend Brown behind enemy lines in Germany in the closing weeks of World War II is simply not true.
This calls into question the validity of all the other information “Morgan” provided to Paul Schatzkin.


Sources:
Book: “Defying Gravity”, by Paul Schatzkin.
38 Group SOE Circuit Drop Log held in the National Archives, Kew, England.
Book: “They ditched on Lake Mjosa”, by Peter F. Lloyd.
DVD: “NA337 - Last Flight from Mikkelsberget” by Håkon Løkken.

Interesting post Geoff. I too have looked into NA337 and sent a request to the Canadian Air Force Museum for some records. http://airforcemuseum.ca/en/exhibits/the-story-of-halifax-na337-2p-x-part-1-of-5 (reference link)

I believe a good deal of information is available and becoming more available with each passing year.

NA337 always intrigued me in that I was following it's recovery and transport to Trenton, Ontario, Canada. It was the talk of some circles about 15 years ago. In fact, somewhere I have a print that was purchased for $20 where the proceeds went to the restoration project. A good friend and I both purchased them and he was an aviator in WWII.

I am sure you can see the serendipity that I felt when I first read about Dr. Brown being delivered to Germany by the very airplane that I donated funds for restoration.

I have heard that you have been criticized for not posting on another site with this information and for not giving this information to Paul when he was writing "Defying Gravity". My comment is....did you have this information at the time? Just as when I posted the information in regard to Helen Towt, I too was criticized by this very individual. I didn't have the information at the time and I would be willing to bet that you didn't either. Criticism is the first offense of those who feel slighted or wronged by truth but fear not for in the fullness of time, truth will prevail as long as we are diligent in bringing it to the forefront.

Historical research into the dropping of operatives into hostile territory at an altitude of 600 feet were done usually by other aircraft that could reduce airspeed and enable a more accurate drop into a DZ (drop zone) but I am sure that there are exceptions to the rule but I don't believe and have had difficulty with this aspect of the story since day one and was content at that time to believe that it was the exception, however, I don't believe it for if you look at your map, the flight to drop Dr. Brown would have been over Allied occupied territory and thus an aircraft that would be able to deliver "the package" more accurately would have been preferred. Afterall, it was reported by twigsnapper that he was a valuable cargo, so valuable that he was ordered to kill him than to let him fall into the hands of the enemy (reminds me if twigsnapper got this idea from the movie "Wind Talkers"). In fact, sometime around the time that Paul wrote this, there was a story about this aircraft in the media. One can only wonder if this particular aircraft was chosen just because it was there. As to Morgan's stories, you are correct, this raises the question as to how much of what he told Paul is truth or fiction. It's time for a bit of due-diligence? Perhaps this is why Paul walked away?

Do you have any further information to substantiate what you have posted? I was told that flight logs are available.

Mikado

Mikado,

I do appreciate the need to provide proof of, or a verifiable link to, the information I have posted.

Unfortunately I am no longer in contact with the researcher who very generously provided me with photographs of the relevant pages from what he calls the “38 Group SOE Circuit Drop Log” which he took at the National Archives, Kew, England, and so I am unable to obtain his permission to post his photographs on the Forum.

Although his description did not include the National Archive ‘Piece reference’, I have searched their web site and found what I believe to be the relevant one:

Piece reference AIR 25/586
No. 38 (Airborne Forces) Group Operations Record Book (ORB) covering the period September 1943 to May 1945:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/cata ... IR25%2F586

As I understand it, there is no charge for visiting Kew and viewing and photographing this Operations Record Book. Alternatively, a digital copy can be ordered online, for which a fee is payable (Kew will first provide an estimate in response to a detailed enquiry).

Geoff

Geoff wrote:Mikado,

I do appreciate the need to provide proof of, or a verifiable link to, the information I have posted.

Unfortunately I am no longer in contact with the researcher who very generously provided me with photographs of the relevant pages from what he calls the “38 Group SOE Circuit Drop Log” which he took at the National Archives, Kew, England, and so I am unable to obtain his permission to post his photographs on the Forum.

Although his description did not include the National Archive ‘Piece reference’, I have searched their web site and found what I believe to be the relevant one:

Piece reference AIR 25/586
No. 38 (Airborne Forces) Group Operations Record Book (ORB) covering the period September 1943 to May 1945:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/cata ... IR25%2F586

As I understand it, there is no charge for visiting Kew and viewing and photographing this Operations Record Book. Alternatively, a digital copy can be ordered online, for which a fee is payable (Kew will first provide an estimate in response to a detailed enquiry).

Geoff

Hello Geoff, I can appreciate your response.

I am including a link that might help others to understand a bit of the 38th Groups work:

http://www.raf38group.org/historyindex

...within this site there is some nice info on the 38th Group Squadrons and a map for both SOE (Special Operations Executive) and SAS (Special Air Services). I also noticed that this appears to be the unit that transported the Jedburgh teams to their DZ (Drop Zone).

I have looked into the digital copy of the book/pages and it's cost and am awaiting a response and hopefully, it will show, once and for all that the information that Morgan supplied to Paul is much akin to what twigsnapper supplied....another hoax...one more Chapter of "Defying Gravity" that needs to be removed due to inaccurate information.

Paul had wondered at one time how he was going to trim the pages down to a more realistic number. All he had to do was to perform his due-diligence or so it seems.

Nice work.

Mikado

Here is a post from rose over at the Token. I would give the link but the anonymous emailer doesn't include them. If anyone wishes to go to view the original it is at the cosmic - token and I would do a Google and then a search in the forum.

re-rose wrote:Re: Regarding the HUT
by re-rose » Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:46 pm

Linda, somewhere, I have copies of the 2 logbook pages in question. Geoff sent them to me last year. For some reason, I did not take them as conclusive proof that no drop had been made, just that the tail number did not match the one mentioned.

Seems like I recall noting that the entry just above the disputed plane's flight record indicated that a "package" was delivered and I thought perhaps the specific tail number had been used as a pointer to the 'right' flight, since package was typically code for an agent drop. Anyway, if I can remember where I stashed the pages I will look at them again to see if anything new strikes me about them, but out of respect for Geoff's relationship with his friend, I will not post them without his permission.

Also, I was not sure how he came up with the date of April 24? Do you recall, who said the drop occurred then?

rose

I have the same copies and you are misreading them. 2P-X is Halifax NA 337 and the flight officer was Turnbull. On April 20, 1945, it departed Larrant/Rushton at 20:55 hours. They returned at 05:15, 1 minute ahead of schedule but they failed to complete their mission. Reason is not stated in the log.

On April 23, 1945, Halifax 2P-X (NA337) departed Larrant/Rushton at 19:51 hours. Their ETR (Estimated Time of Return) was 06:14. The log indicates that they were reported missing. From the only surviving crew member and from witnesses it was learned that 2P-X went down in the early morning hours of the 24th of April.

These are the only log entries for 2P-X whose tail number was NA337. You need to look up the difference between a registration number and a Squadron number. For example, 124485 was the serial number on the tail of the "Memphis Belle" but her designation was DF-A. The Belle was in the 324th Bomb Squadron, 91st Bomb Group, and they used the Squadron Codes DF-A to H. The serial number would have been in small print on the tail as compared to the squadron identification which was in large print on the fuselage. The Halifax NA 337 was with the 244th Squadron at Larrant/Rushton and was designated 2P-X. The 2P-X would have been painted in large print on the fuselage of the aircraft for visual identification in flight while in formation. The NA337 would have been on the tail and in smaller print.

No where in the logs, for I have the same prints as you because Geoff gave them to me in an email on March 17th after I informed him that I was researching the NA 337, that a package was delivered.

Your memory is incorrect. You may be confusing it with something else you may have viewed but it is not from any photos that Geoff has supplied for I have them as well.

As to the date of the drop, April 24, you misunderstand. If Dr Brown left the day after Roosevelt died that would be April 13, 1945. Now allowing for the fact that twigsnapper mentioned that Dr Brown stopped off in Canada for some "quick" parachuting lessons than he would have had to be in England by April 23rd to make a flight with 2P-X (NA337). In the early morning hours of April 24, 2P-X went down.

I am surprised at your lack of understanding of the designations of the aircraft of WWII as these were also on aircraft used by the OSS which you claimed to have done extensive research into. Perhaps this aspect was not required for your research and my surprise is misplaced.

Mikado

Ok Rose, let's do this one more time.

Here is what you said(Kim brought this to me):

Rose wrote:
Re: Regarding the HUT
by re-rose » Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:26 pm

If I can read all of the above correctly, then it all boils down to why the flight date of the 24th was used. + some blah blah that accusationI can't be bothered to answer. Perhaps it will look more worthwhile once I'm twenty-twenty again.

I was just about to ask to have my membership reinstated at the Hut so that we could discuss the reported history without needing to resort to veiled and not-so-veiled derogations of each other's intent, ability, and good will. Oh, well.

rose

You don't get it so let me attempt to clarify.

In all the posts that Geoff made, they hinge around the flight records that NA 337 (2P-X) made after the departure of Dr. Brown from California. NA 377 was told to Paul by Morgan that it was the aircraft that delivered Dr Brown for the drop into Germany. Now, pausing for a moment, if we are to believe Morgan and what he told Paul, then it should be easy to see in the record what the date might have been for when Dr. Brown was dropped. Since Dr. Brown left the day after FDR died than his departure is April 13th, 1945. The NA 337 made two flights that could possibly be the one that Morgan describes. If twigsnapper claims that Dr. Brown went to England via Canada then it would be very close for him to make the one flight and that is documented as to being flown in a different direction than Germany and IF it went on its mission and diverted to Germany, it would've needed to fly at about twice it's normal cruising speed. This same scenario applies to it's final flight on 23rd/24th of April in which it was shot down.

To sum it up, Morgan gave false information to Paul in regard to NA337 being the bird that was used to deliver Dr. Brown to Germany since there were only two dates that the plane flew and the second one, it was shot down.

You are free to draw any conclusion you wish but from the facts, Morgan lied.

Addressing your last sentence, nothing was veiled or otherwise in my post to you. But remember this, I don't have a blog site as you do and made defamatory statements. As to your membership, it was never deactivated, all you need do is login and if there is a problem, notify me. Perhaps it would be a bit easier to discuss, intelligently, if you were here and wished to do so but in looking at your last comment.....who is throwing sarcasm?

Feel free to post and discuss for there is more to come in discussing the facts as presented in the book "Defying Gravity".

But I must say this, why is Linda so worried about what myself and Geoff are doing? Wasn't that what she wanted several years ago? Due-diligence in order to do a final draft? None of what is being presented involves her, only those that provided information to Paul but yet Linda is doing head stands to defame in derogatory comments in an effort to discredit what has been posted to date. Now ask yourself why? Didn't Elizabeth Helen Drake in a post on Paul's forum state that she only wanted the truth - good or bad? Or was Elizabeth Helen Drake a different person than Linda for the Linda that is doing her best to discredit information being posted is not the Linda who was Elizabeth Helen Drake.

Whatever happened to integrity in writing? Truth in reporting?

Do what you wish - post or not - be a part of a solution in truth or stay in the darkness of ignorance with a flashlight but if you do post....you are welcome here.

Mikado

The book I've been studying about WWII aircraft states that Halifax bombers were used for making covert parachute drops of people and supplies into enemy territory. That piece of information is not inconsistent with the events Linda has described.

Grimm

catspaw1950 wrote:The book I've been studying about WWII aircraft states that Halifax bombers were used for making covert parachute drops of people and supplies into enemy territory. That piece of information is not inconsistent with the events Linda has described.

Grimm

Events that Linda described? Cat, are you holding back information that others don't know?

I don't believe that Geoff was attempting to disclaim that the Halifax was used as mentioned, the problem is that the aircraft identified by Morgan/twigsnapper could not have been the one used. Therefore, the information is inaccurate.

Who said anything about information that Linda described?

Mikado