Thin film deposition on uroboros glass substrate

[DavidG]

Dichroic mineral deposition...but not vapor deposition....a new way to lay thin films on glass without a 3 million dollar vapor deposition machine.

Goal is to ultimately create a layered conductive surface to replace tungsten discs in the gravitor device.

Five different formulas to go.......

Cheers!
Dave

[Nancy_Hutchison]

Dichroic mineral deposition...but not vapor deposition....a new way to lay thin films on glass without a 3 million dollar vapor deposition machine.

Goal is to ultimately create a layered conductive surface to replace tungsten discs in the gravitor device.

Five different formulas to go.......

Cheers!
Dave

more pics, please

[Mikado14]

Not quite sure what I am looking at in the photo.

Please correct me if I am wrong:

I understand dichroic as a filtering effect whereas when the deposition area is rotated, different wavelengths of light will be reflected. Now your statement of "dichroic mineral deposition" has me a bit confused whereas it is something new to me. So that I don't make an ass out of myself in making assumptive statements in regard to the reflective wavelength of tungsten or some such thing, could you describe the process of "dichroic mineral deposition"?....please?

Mikado

[DavidG]

Not quite sure what I am looking at in the photo.

Please correct me if I am wrong:

I understand dichroic as a filtering effect whereas when the deposition area is rotated, different wavelengths of light will be reflected. Now your statement of "dichroic mineral deposition" has me a bit confused whereas it is something new to me. So that I don't make an ass out of myself in making assumptive statements in regard to the reflective wavelength of tungsten or some such thing, could you describe the process of "dichroic mineral deposition"?....please?

Mikado

Sure...what Im doing is using a special mixture of mica mineral oxides to form a layer on the glass without vapor deposition, whereas the formula is a mineral base, using titanium dioxide for adhesion and either 24k gold, or like in this experiment, 999 fine silver dust, distilled water, firing it onto the glass to a specific temp which keeps the film intact, but fused to the glass...around 1325 F.

The Mica is the dichroic part, and gives it that pink shimmer, which shifts to light green at 45 degrees of viewing.Mica also bonds the metal dust to the glass, and titanium dioxide helps that along, too.

Im hoping after multiple layers are done, the surface will be a good conductor, and the glass it is fired on will be the dielectric.

Its just something I was thinking of for a long time, and since ordinary dicroic glass doesnt have much conductivity, I figured mixing conductive materials in with the dichroic coloring might work well for this experiment.

My goal is conductive thin film glass without the vacuum chamber and money that goes with it.

Cheers!
Dave

[Mikado14]

Okay so far but a few questions.

The idea of vapor deposition was to control the impurities. Therefore, you are not concerned with the possibility of any impurities being carried along with the deposition?

I have worked with glass prior in the making of bubble tubes for a specific market. 1325 degrees is getting past the "soft state" and could be considered in some arenas as a "plastic state". Therefore, any solution you would apply would have the effect of "cooling" the surface area, therefore, is the solution at the same temperature or a bit lower?

Just trying to get my head around the deposition process you are talking of. I am familiar with vapor deposition from doing some work for North American Rockwell when they had a plant here in Parkerford whereas they were making P type and N type substrates with a diffusion process as well as vapor deposition of SiO₂ on substrate.

Best,

Mikado

[DavidG]

[quote="Mikado14"]Okay so far but a few questions.

The idea of vapor deposition was to control the impurities. Therefore, you are not concerned with the possibility of any impurities being carried along with the deposition?

I have worked with glass prior in the making of bubble tubes for a specific market. 1325 degrees is getting past the "soft state" and could be considered in some arenas as a "plastic state". Therefore, any solution you would apply would have the effect of "cooling" the surface area, therefore, is the solution at the same temperature or a bit lower?

Just trying to get my head around the deposition process you are talking of. I am familiar with vapor deposition from doing some work for North American Rockwell when they had a plant here in Parkerford whereas they were making P type and N type substrates with a diffusion process as well as vapor deposition of SiO₂ on substrate.

Hey there Mikado,

What Im doing will have some impurities, I found they can be cleaned off the pink layer with tuner wash after firing(like a waxy layer)

How it goes is. .....I brush the solution on the glass and fire it to tack fuse temps(uroboros glass 90 coe) cool, clean recoat....kind of hoping for some form of conductivity, but most of all, trying to see how deep the color gets for my wife! Lol

The actual solution is made by a friend, and sold as another product, makeup for eyes...with mica and glitter....mixed with gold or fine silver dust.

The silver wants to ball up if too coarse, so Im trying to get layers to form instead of a loosely aggregated texture.

Thanks for any input you want to offer, for now its just a folly...thought each glass piece would make a good gravitor plate...crazy thoughts indeed!

[Mikado14]

No such thing as "folly".

Serendipity can be a welcome teacher.

Mikado

[kevin]

DavidG,
When I used to teach welding....
If and when hardfacing tungsten blades for RR , I developed a method to do this whilst in pure argon, this not only made sure of no impurities , but also cooled as the argon is kept very cold( liquid)

The welding torch had it's own argon supply, but I made seperate devices to shield the blade ends within a strong flow of argon( diffused through such as fine wire wool to supply large amounts of argon without causing tubulence.)
The object of the exercise was to fuse stellite onto the blade with no damage to the blade.

Kevin

[DavidG]

No such thing as "folly".

Serendipity can be a welcome teacher.

Mikado

It all started with Her asking me if the makeup she makes and sells would be able to be fused onto glass....which I then went one step further and used the makeup to be a base for the metal powder, as a primer or fusing glue of sorts, and the mica blends in each color gives the conductive surface a color of its own.

Now, after a few more colors, this pink one did the best, so I'll be trying to layer it up thick this time...to see if there is any conductivity at all.

Kevin, welding makes me think of sputtering, which is a good way to deposit material as well, because whenever I have welded, people have said it looks like I threw the chunks of welding rod onto the weld...LOL!

[Mikado14]

I have done sputter welding on a crankshaft prior to machining. It takes a lot of current/voltage with a MIG.

Interesting.

Mikado