Beginners Electromagnetism Class

[htmagic]

Great discussions! Nate.... thank you .... and Magic Bill.... pointing out that there was " Light " before the sun was created... in the Biblical sense.... just made me smile. There all the time and people don't actually SEE what it said. Plad... I will catch up with what you have said, I promise. And Hut Master... as always...... Linda

Linda,

Thanks. I have been trying to wrap my head around that for a while. This Qualight appears to be what others call "Superlight" but I still don't understand it. I think your Dad coined the term Qualight. I need to study more on this.

I'm headed to Maryland today to surprise my family and be with them all Thanksgiving week. Several Honey-Do's to do up there. And hopefully I will surprise Kimberly as she thinks I'm driving next Tuesday...

Peace,

[KarenAnn23]

Nikola Tesla 1865-1943

This is currently what I'm looking at....just to try and grasps somethings, I brought it here in case other want a breif veiw of him.

http://www.tesla.org/

I found this an interesting statement Linda did you know this?

However, his main financial backer, J. Pierpont Morgan

Morgan hummm, mabye that's old news and really doesn't have much if anything to do with the subject at hand, however..is this why JD liked that name??

[KarenAnn23]

Just some points of reference that I found interesting: (All can be reached threw above link)

"At one time, Westinghouse began to work on heat pumps that could provide heating and cooling, and believed that he might be able to extract enough power in the process for the system to run itself.

Any modern engineer would clearly see that Westinghouse was after a perpetual motion machine, and the British physicist Lord Kelvin, one of Westinghouse's correspondents, told him that he would be violating the laws of thermodynamics."
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ames_Hydro ... ting_Plant

The 1st hydroelectic plant

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From winipedia also found on above link
Vibration
Sound is a traveling wave which is an oscillation of pressure. Humans perceive frequency of sound waves as pitch. Each musical note corresponds to a particular frequency which can be measured in hertz. An infant's ear is able to perceive frequencies ranging from 16 Hz to 20,000 Hz; the average human can hear sounds between 20 Hz and 16,000 Hz.[4] The range of ultrasound, infrasound and other physical vibrations such as molecular vibrations extends into the megahertz range and well beyond.

[edit] Electromagnetic radiation
Electromagnetic radiation is often described by its frequency—the number of oscillations of the perpendicular electric and magnetic fields per second—expressed in hertz.

Radio frequency radiation is usually measured in kilohertz, megahertz, or gigahertz; this is why radio dials are commonly labeled with kHz, MHz, and GHz. Light is electromagnetic radiation that is even higher in frequency, and has frequencies in the range of tens (infrared) to thousands (ultraviolet) of terahertz. Electromagnetic radiation with frequencies in the low terahertz range, (intermediate between those of the highest normally-usable radio frequencies and long-wave infrared light), is often called terahertz radiation. Even higher frequencies exist, such as that of gamma rays, which can be measured in exahertz. (For historical reasons, the frequencies of light and higher frequency electromagnetic radiation are more commonly specified in terms of their wavelengths or photon energies: for a more detailed treatment of this and the above frequency ranges, see electromagnetic spectrum.)

While I was trying to bring some interesting facts up here ...
What does this last part have to do with TTB, seems obvious it does, what does it mean to you and TTB Fan

[PeeTee]

I just want to point out one thing.... Dad was very specific in saying that the Biefeld-Brown Effect demonstrated a DEPARTURE from Coulombs Law. Now in quickly reading over the material on electromagnetism I ran head on into the Coulomb Law .... or rules..... which I already know that Dads principle broke..... and still nobody can really explain what is going on? Linda

Careful everyone !!!
Linda has pointed out the very most important scientific challenge to the modern foundation of Physics and Science here. If Paul had only paid more attention to this simple fact he may have found his answer regarding the importance of Brown's work.

Coulomb's law is VERY VERY important in the definition of Electric Field FORCE and Magnetic field FORCE.

If some other "FORCE" operates differently then it would be a good idea to find out .....don't you think?

Before even starting in on fields, either magnetic or electric in nature, it would be a good idea to define "FORCE" itself don't ya think?

You can suspend a one pound ball exactly 100 feet above ground and say "when I release this ball "Gravity" will pull the 1 pound ball with "X" amount of "force". ...... That would normally do except that the "force" does not stop there because the ball will not fall at an even speed towards the ground.

In reality the force of Gravity will continue to pull (or push depending on perspective) the ball to continue to fall at a faster speed towards ground. So the force of Gravity is such that falling objects continue to increase in velocity as they fall further and further down.

The objects falling through normal air will reach a "terminal velocity" however (roughly speaking it amounts to a steady speed based on the thickness of the air resisting the motion of the falling object).

Because of this complication in using the term FORCE, we have to to explain FORCE itself using two "static" terms like: The force of "1 pound over 1 foot"

If the 1 pound ball moves down 1 foot, then it has 1foot/lb of force.

That is one way to describe force itself. Now.... we know basically what 1 ft/lb of force is..... How does this apply in electromagnetism?
Simply this" FORCE has been defined.

If you create an elecromagnet that MOVES something. if it moves something with exactly the same speed and mass as a 1 pound object moving exactly 1 foot, then whatever created that force used up a certain amount of electrical energy to make a 1 ft/lb force.
For instance; Your Electrical system may have operated on 12 volts and used up 1 amp of current (at 12 volts) to push an object of 1 pound upward exactly 1 foot.
Using all the traditional terms that science has thus far discovered, one would normally also include the famous Coulomb law to calculate the forces.

AH.....but it doesn't add up in the Biefeld Brown force!!!!!

That is what most everyone has missed . Even The Japaneese have gone as far as to try and justify the difference by factoring in ZPE in their 2007 paper:
Explanation of dynamical Biefeld-Brown Effect from the standpoint of ZPF field
Takaaki Musha
3-11-2007-601, Namiki, Kanazawa-ku, Yokohama 236-005 Japan
takaaki.musha@gmail.com, musha@cs.trdi.mod.go.jp

So what is so different if FORCE that everyone can't step back and say "wait a minute here", -what's really going on if all of normal science cannot explain this mechanical effect we see demonstrated here.


Peetee le trickfox

[KarenAnn23]

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that I don't think modern science explains things..well what I'm trying to say is there is certainly a lot more to learn..I'm not meaning on this site thread..but in science itself..by it's very existance it changes as we learn more.

It can't stay stangnet, it won't work that way..that's why they are called theories, if that makes since to you all. It seems the more I read and learn the more I am running into so many contradictions..So, I also guess we'll have to wade threw what we believe and what we don't.

Not an easy thing at all. But, certainly worth it !!!

Thank you everyone,
Karen

[natecull]

Now for electromagnetism, the Biot-Savart law and the Lorentz force are fundamental to electromagnetism just as Coulomb's law is fundamental to electrostatics.

Thanks htmagic. The Wikipedia page has this interesting little sidebar which I've not seen spelled out clearly elsewhere:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biot-savart_law

The Biot–Savart law is also used to calculate the velocity induced by vortex lines in aerodynamic theory.

The electric current equation can be viewed as a convective current of electric charge that involves linear motion. By analogy, the magnetic equation is an inductive current involving spin. There is no linear motion in the inductive current along the direction of the B vector. The magnetic inductive current represents lines of force. In particular, it represents lines of inverse square law force.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorticity

So the original Maxwell idea of what electricity and magnetism was, was that electricity was literally straight-line fluid flow, and magnetism was the fluid spin around that flow. Just as you get in air or water. A very simple picture, easy to hold in your head.

Now bearing in mind that when we add in Special Relativity it complicates things a bit, (because distances sort of squish strangely when an electric or magnetic field starts moving near lightspeed - a similar thing *might* happen to pure waves in air near the speed of sound but I won't swear by it), and when you add in quantum stuff it complicates it more (because as far as we know there's no exact fluid equivalent of quanta - again, unless there's a way of thinking about resonance). But ignoring those effects - so it's already a bit wrong - I think this is roughly what electricity is.

And this is what Maxwell thought it was in 1861, and what everyone still pretty much thought it was in 1905, before Einstein came out with 1) Special Relativity and 2) photons, in that 'miracle year' of his, both of which tore the nice simple fluid/wave model to shreds. And even he didn't like where that ended up (QED), but couldn't argue with the quantum guys because they were getting the right numbers and he wasn't.

(Now there were a small group of quantum physicists who didn't really like the idea of quanta (particles) either and tried to turn everything back into waves again. Einstein, Schroedinger, de Broglie, Dirac. They did succeed in adding *some* fluid flow concepts back into modern physics. But they couldn't get all the way back, they had to add in multiple dimensions and other weird things.)

But if we do want to turn the clock back to 1861, this is what electromagnetism was thought to be at that time, and it's probably still a good introductory picture.

Vortex gun! If anyone's got a birthday coming up, here's how you can blow out your candles in style.
http://gizmodo.com/365027/massive-air-v ... s-bigstyle

[KarenAnn23]

Hi Everyone,

want you to know I haven't given up by any means just taking time for the holidays, I know I don't have to make an excuse, but if you had a family as big as mine you'd know why.

Happy Thankgivings...

If I can sneak away, I'll try and get more up, again Nate you came threw in a wonderful way..I wonder if you realize just how much you and everyone has made this interesting and understandable and eaier on me.

Thanks Karen

[Linda Brown]

Its going to be a quiet Thanksgiving for us but I think its wonderful that so many of you are going to have a housefull! Most of my family has to work so we always plan for a special day sometime after Thanksgiving....

Now I have sort of a reverse question for the class. In your best and simplest language what does " Electron return time" mean to you and why would both Dad and then specifically Morgan repeat it to me .... as if .... don't forget this, it is very important. WHY and will my bringing that question up right now have any particular meanind to anyone. I think it is supposed to ring bells somewhere but nothing is chiming in my brain .... so .... someone else?

Linda

[natecull]

what does " Electron return time" mean to you and why would both Dad and then specifically Morgan repeat it to me

Interesting. It turns up mostly in very high-intensity laser physics, as well as in electrostatic fusion (Fusors and Polywell). Paul uses it in his Farnsworth book attributed to Farnsworth himself.

"Phil started to explain inertial containment," Blaising recalled, "and used the expression 'electron return time.'

It doesn't get a lot of Google hits. Only a handful on Google Scholar.

http://scholar.google.co.nz/scholar?q=% ... as_sdtp=on

My first wild untutored guess would be it's to do with the time it takes for an ionised or excited electron, to drop back to its previous orbit after emitting a photon and be ready to accept a new excitation photon. And my further speculation would be that if not used in a laser, it would still have to do with resonance frequencies of excited atoms, and therefore nuclear magnetic resonance. But I'd expect a lot more hits if that were the case, which is odd. I could be way off base there.

If I'm not mistaken, it's a phrase which has entered the public literature only recently, around 1995.

http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRA/v52/i6/p4747_1
http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRB/v48/i5/p3433_1

These seem to describe a new, very recent technique called 'High Harmonic Generation' in which very high frequency harmonics are induced in an excited atom, allowing observation of the time it takes for electrons to return to their orbits. This is a capability we haven't had before it seems:

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/do ... 1&type=pdf

The temporal profile of harmonic emission, as well as its absolute timing with respect to the optical cycle [13], can be reconstructed from the measured spectral amplitudes and emission times. By plotting the temporal profile of groups of five consecutive harmonics generated in neon in Fig.9, we clearly evidence their different emission times, i.e., the positive chirp in the APT. This can be considered as the first direct observation of the electron return time and therefore quantum path associated to a given harmonic energy, which strongly supports the three-step model. Now, the consequences of the chirp are dramatic for the attosecond pulse generation since the pulse where all the harmonics are included is 149as long (FWHM) in
Fig. 9, about three times the Fourier-limited duration (55 as), with large secondary pulses. The minimum pulse duration that can be achieved from the chirped emission is 127 as, obtained by selecting 11 harmonics. The latter constitutes the shortest light bursts ever measured.

127 attoseconds is pretty darn short. My guess is that the phrase "electron return time" is not generally in the literature because until now we haven't had the ability to measure it so it's been an experimental nonentity. That's if it's what I think it is.

However there's also a citation here in the context of particle collisions rather than lasing, which might be more similar to a Fusor or electrohydrodynamics situation:

http://arxiv.org/pdf/quant-ph/0407019

Concerning the identity of particles the electron’s return time t may be used as an observable feature of collision process. This term implies time span necessary to revert the distance between electrons to initial value.

Or it could mean something else entirely, at a higher level than the quantum, in which case we'd need to know more about the surrounding context in which it was used.

[Linda Brown]

Thank you Nate,

I thought that you would be the first to answer on that one.

Its a very familiar phrase to me but I don't really understand . Dad first started using that phrase with me when we talked about Neils Bohr when I was just a kid. He said that one of the things that Bohr was most puzzled with was the path of an electron ... how it could change from one speed to another ... and how it knew what speed to change to. As if it had somehow ( while nobody could see it) switched lanes on a freeway and had seen a posted speed sign that was new and then adjusted itself to that speed. ( I was nine remember during most of this conversation so it s a good thing that he kept it simple for me). Bohr he said never quite figured who put the sign up.

And the words " Electron Return time" kept coming up with Morgans messages to Paul ( Some of those have been hand delivered to Rose and me from Morgans side of things ... to give us a better look at what Morgan did attempt to give Paul, most of which Paul left lying on the floor intellectually.)

And he also mentioned it more than once to me. So its important and I am getting the hint from you now that this is cutting edge certainly and it has alot more to do with fusion and perhaps was one of the reasons that Dad caught Pauls interest more than normally.

I appreciate your input in this Nate. If you see something novel in this .... take it and run with it..... as far and as fast as you can... consider it a gift.

Linda