Emails from the Token

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Re: Emails from the Token

Postby re-rose » Sun May 18, 2014 11:23 am

Musings inspired by Luis' use of the word meek:

1: enduring injury with patience and without resentment : mild
2: deficient in spirit and courage : submissive
3: not violent or strong : moderate

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/meek


Most of the time, "Meekness" is erroneously perceived as a quality that is passive, mouselike, weak, and timid, but that seems wrong to me. From the comments that followed the definitions, I gather that others also disagree with this perceived soft and ineffectual quality.

Tommy Jenks of Anacoco High School provided some helpful root word context:
The Greek words πραΰς, πραεῖα, πραΰ or (transliterated:) Praus is the root of all of the words translated as meek in the bible and referred to a war horse that had been trained to be under exacting control of its master in battle. A steed that was trained to face an oncoming attack, charge into it and when asked... stop without bolting or fear. The fact that the usage of the word has become something else over time isn't relevant.


Ah! Now I understand how the dichotomy of interpretations has occurred! Onlookers cannot always see who the real master is.

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Re: Emails from the Token

Postby TheTraveler » Mon May 19, 2014 9:09 am

Hey Rose, and of course everyone!

Just my perspective/thoughts, but Meek does not really imply any of the terms directly that have been used here. To me, a meek person is one who is self aware, in control of his/her thoughts and actions and does not fear the consequences of their actions. But, if pushed they will not talk or bluster about what to do, but rather when compelled to would stand up to whatever challenge is necessary.

Was not god considered meek? I consider meek to be more along the lines of humble, for shall the meek not inherit the earth, and therefore defend themselves, their friends and family when called on to do so?

So, I think the problem here is that many confuse the work meek with timid.

I'm, just saying....
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Re: Emails from the Token

Postby re-rose » Mon May 19, 2014 11:15 am

Was not god considered meek?


I don't know. Was she? <g> What I recall from Sunday School was that Jehovah always seemed to be on a tear about something or another.

Yes, meekness is often confused with timidity and It is not a complimentary word these days, but if folks could see the warhorse in action they might have a different opinion.

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Re: Emails from the Token

Postby LuisP » Mon May 19, 2014 4:54 pm

Well, quite a stir, it seems !
All because of meekness.

Thing is,
I am familiar with the Third Beatitude and its Lesson (Oh yes I am !), but I should point out that it is an allegorical narrative. Yes, I am also extremely (handpalmed like) familiar with the notions of what I can best translate as “Tamed Anger” or “Controlled Strength” as the “true” meaning behind the “humbleness” or the “meekness” alluded in it, so as to (ahem) reinforce the fact that being “meek” is NOT a sign of sheep-like submissiveness or – to be less callous – a simple manifestation of the ability to accept everything with a consenting attitude.

Two points, though, on that :
1 – Two Thousand Years after its utterance, no need to dig out personal “interpretations” of generally assumed allegories or, even less, to absorb absolutely recondite and erudite initial semantic meanings ascertained to a given adjective that has survived the test of time, and has therefore a widely accepted meaning regardless of its “correct” intention .

For above these – very important, yes – roots, lies the unquestionable fact that “Meek” has nowadays (and since VERY long) been generally assumed to represent cowed submissiveness, a very docile temperament or, simply put in today’s “simpleness”, as synonym of a “Yes-Man”.
It is this that any Joe will mean, when saying of another, “He is a meek guy”. I’d think that you all may agree on this (ahem) popular definition, even if, an Academia like erroneous one.

2 – The Bible has a lot to learn from, and Teach. It is a Sacred Collection of 73 Books (Catholic wise, I mean) comprising 46 from the Old Testament and 27 from the New Testament.
If we’re “uplifting” a discussion about adjectives and their “meanings” into the quicksand realm of those Books (you listening, Traveler ?), okay, well then, I’d like to “counter-argument” with the following Passages :
2.1 - Hebrews 10:26-31 “For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment”
2.2 - Ephesians 5:6 : "Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things comes the wrath of God”.
2.3 - Romans 10:1-21 : “Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness.”

So, on one hand Wrath is one of the Divine perfections and it is not an abstract quality as - just to mention a few - the Flood, Sodom and Gormorrah’s annihilation , the Egyptian Plagues, the destruction of the Pharaoh’s armies and the slew of their first born, abundantly shows.

On the other hand, that is why Sinners are forever threatened with God's wrath, for they are by nature "children of wrath." They exist, and are His children, even if misguided ones and, because of it, under “threat” of His wrath because they have not yet “receiv(ed) the knowledge of the truth” and may therefore repent through a “remain(ing) sacrifice for sins”.

Yes, these Sinners exist and will utter perhaps "vain words", but nonetheless merit that “they may be saved”. For (St.Paul’s) “bear them witness that they have a zeal for God”.
And since “Vengeance is Mine”, said Him, (and not we) so let them exist, the “children of Wrath”, for their existence surely has a reason !

There’s a counter to every part, is there not ?

Why ? Beats me !
Ask Him.

And be gentle with the Palmatoria, meanwhile, if you please ….
Unless you yourselves want to be guilty of Haughtiness and Pride ! Meaning, equal Sins subjected henceforth to equal Threat.

I love indulging in “Biblelese”.
Go figure talking about it here.

But hey…

(You asleep already, Rose ? Damn ….!)
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Re: Emails from the Token

Postby re-rose » Mon May 19, 2014 9:25 pm

Yes, Luis, but before I dozed off, I think I got that in the Biblical sense, the Children of the Wrath are the counterpoint to the Meek., but no less...I guess where you would say saved, I would say "divine in their essense."

And I got that I might must meekly accept that meek is forevermore fated to be an inglorious adjective.

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Re: Emails from the Token

Postby LuisP » Tue May 20, 2014 5:38 pm

So, having dwelled into Allegories and also into Cooking, may I post the following hybrid :

1- Take some of Matthew 26:52 - “all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword”.
2- Now, sprinkle it with a fistful of Revelations 13:10“he that kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints”.
3 - Put it all in an already preheated oven (essential requisite), grab a beer and wait.
4 - If exasperated by the waiting, remember that patience is a Saintly Virtue and please do try and emulate them, instead of being an ass or a Postpositivist.
5 – Since you may not be very familiar with the finer points involved in dealing with quicksand (no arrogance there, just a friendly assumption), and look at these excerpts from them Saintly Books as saying that you must expect an exogenous deed to accomplish the mentioned fate, meaning (yes, a bit obtuse there I’m afraid, so I’ll clarify it) that death to a sworn swordsman will then be met at the hands of a third party, and not at his own,
6 – You will at some instance in time perhaps want to check how the baking is going along, and prick it with a wood stick to see if it is done, or if not, what needs to be corrected.
7 – Do not do it. Remember - once again - point (4) above referenced.
7.1 – And why not ?
7.2 - Well, because shite happens. Yeah, I know, it ain’t a allegory, not even a parable and just a metaphor - and not a very erudite one at that - but then again, I’m not an accomplished, much less, saintly, writer. So how about quittin yer bitchin, and read on ? how about that ?
7.3 - For thing is, if you are dealing with a guy that loves and plays with swords, shite can really happen, so a judicious fellow should just give that guy some time. Lots of it.
7.4 – Why ? Well, because he’ll do the job all by himself, that’s why. Swordsmen are like that – they simply like to play with swords. So, why change that ? In the end, he’ll cut his own throat, for playing and cutting with swords is what it is all about.
8 – So, now in possession of this better information, I hope you recognize the wisdom of not pricking the mixture, and just let it bake. And bake. All by itself. Some things simply are best left that way.

You’ll know when it is done.
Why ?
Because you will smell it.

The rotting stench.
Or
The delicious aroma of a perfectly baked meal.

It all depends on what you are doing.

Cooking, or making Parables.
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Re: Emails from the Token

Postby LuisP » Wed May 21, 2014 2:37 pm

Wags ?

I'd hate to see you sitting across a Poker table.

But I would play Chess with you, anytime.
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Re: Emails from the Token

Postby wags » Wed May 21, 2014 2:48 pm

LuisP wrote:Wags ?

I'd hate to see you sitting across a Poker table.

But I would play Chess with you, anytime.


Strange you should say that....

I won a local poker completion.....

It was the second time I had played. :D

Chess well that is a game and a half.
Boswell : ‘I have provided you with an argument, but I am not obliged to supply an understanding"
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Re: Emails from the Token

Postby LuisP » Wed May 21, 2014 4:16 pm

wags wrote:
Strange you should say that....

I won a local poker completion.....



Not strange at all.
Quite obvious, really !

You're losing it, pal. That sharp, finely honed, Positivism.



Oh, and Congratulations !
And also, please do not compete more.

You're a fierce and formidable enough Poker hand just as you are.
Trouble enough, (ahem) already.
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Re: Emails from the Token

Postby wags » Wed May 21, 2014 4:23 pm

LuisP wrote:
wags wrote:
Strange you should say that....

I won a local poker completion.....



Not strange at all.
Quite obvious, really !

You're losing it, pal. That sharp, finely honed, Positivism.



Oh, and Congratulations !
And also, please do not compete more.

You're a fierce and formidable enough Poker hand just as you are.
Trouble enough, (ahem) already.


As I have said before, you ascribed the term Positivism. :D

Me Trouble....

Oh you read that. :oops:
Boswell : ‘I have provided you with an argument, but I am not obliged to supply an understanding"
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